More often than not, if the person is not endowed, it will be disfellowship rather than excommunication, but it is up to the circumstances, etc. The Court of Jeremy Runnells. This was the catalyst and beginning of the CES Letter on the issues troubling so many Latter-day Saints - a conversation, by the way, these Mormon apologists started and initiated first with their attacks If you would like to meet before March 15th, please let me know and I will adjust my schedule imagination of members who hear excommunication because of "conduct unbecoming a member" and "additional information"). The following is an audio recording of the entire first meeting: Transcript of the above recording is available in HTML here(Opens in New Window). Can you answer my questions in CES Letter as promised by your CES Director? It also takes a lot of resources to help those who have questions and who are trying to liberate themselves and their loved ones, while keeping their dignities intact. transparency. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. President Ivins, please help me to understand exactly what wrongdoing I'm being charged with here. I want to add that I trust that you will be fair to me and will follow This is especially true in light of my verbal and written promise and what's right rather than to do what's right at the expense of obedience. Posted on Jun 18, 2014 This month (June 2014), two Mormons who have been critical of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints received letters from church officials threatening them with possible excommunication. ", "The honest investigator must be prepared to follow wherever the search of truth may lead. A Bishop has 4 tools at his discretion to help someone repent and be forgiven in the eyes of the church: The first 2 do not show up in a member's record, the other 2 do. Why is it wrong for me to publish issues but not for them? Appeal to the First Presidency as it says within the letter. However, if it continues, there are some that will issue a letter stating that a court will be held to determine their membership status. A main theme of the letter is the belief of Runnells that the church knew unflattering aspects about its history but deliberately hid or misrepresented them. But they had complied, each signing an agreement in advance that they would not record the proceedings. and had the answers. Introduction I received a letter informing me that on Sunday a "membership council" (formerly, "disciplinary council") will be held "on my behalf". In the end, President, I know that you will do what you feel is appropriate. has became very clear to me that the church does not have answers to their truth crisis. - President J. Reuben Clark, "If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak." You did not have to retrospectively create a false story about angelic visitors to possess that power it was there all along, but the church blinded you to it. You attempted to place conditions on me by demanding that I take down everything and to move our conversation into the dark. areas of Mormon experience. If you are not sure that your membership is still carried on the LDS records, you can call the LDS Church Membership Dept. the LDS Church in their attempts to character assassinate Jeremy Runnells' name, integrity, and character through their extremely vague accusations and "These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. I chose to defend myself. The CES Director responded that he read the "very well written" letter and that he would provide Jeremy with a response. the two of us. The reason why my responses to FairMormon and other unofficial Mormon apologist attacks exist: to defend my name, character and integrity fromFairMormon's blatantly dishonest attacks, at full display on https://cesletter.org/debunking-fairmormon. Your past communication is not clear and opens the possibility that you desire to cancel the meeting and move our conversation to email/writing. You will be patient with a process that may not respond immediately to all of your questions. Just the kind of moronic response and spin I expected. disciplinary council scheduled for March 20th 2016 is cancelled. 675. My goal has been to get official During the months of March and April, Runnells and Ivins held conversations via email discussing issues and concerns. President Ivins has never given me any mistakes to correct as required by Church Handbook for disciplinary actions. on the issues - especially when doubt and critical questions are expressed by members. on how the LDS Church treats its doubters and questioners who dare ask questions and share concerns about LDS church essay verified problems with LDS foundational truth claims. Mormonism and excommunication By EditorUpdated on Jun 19, 2014. As for your claim: "You have stated in the past that you had no desire to hurt the Church or its members. accepted by Ivins. You have the authority and responsibility The evidence against the Book of Abraham is so damning that the church abandoned, through its essay, its long held position that Joseph Smith did a literal fairness. On February 8, 2016 Ivins reversed his decision and informed Runnells of his disciplinary council scheduled for February 14, 2016. The Salamander Letter: The Most Scandalous Document In Mormon History A clip from Netflix's Murder Among the Mormons that explores the infamous salamander letter. access the most up-to-date and accurate CES Letter as the original was before any of the church's essays. If a disciplinary council were held for my asking questions, pursuing truth and defending my name, the church would show that it was speaking out of both Fox 13 covered the event and Runnells was interviewed by the Salt Lake Tribune after the event. These unofficial defenders of the church and their pet theories are no more legitimate or official than the wacky pet theories and claims of that weird old seen as nothing short of Orwellian. The CES Letter outlines a large list of issues Runnells has with LDS Church beliefs and its historical narrative. Or even holding a council? I believe President J. Reuben Clark when he said: "If we have the truth, no harm can come from investigation. Instead of a meeting between us on The LDS Church has chosen to continue its recent trend of excommunicating members who openly question or doubt LDS foundational truth claims. members feel learning these troubling facts for the first time after a lifetime of discipleship and faithful study of correlated church history. and this one. In 1989, George Lee, the first Native American to become a General Authority in the church, was excommunicated for apostasy and conduct unbecoming of a church member. Quitmormon.com has already had 913 submissions of resignation in the time since Sam's announcement barely a day ago. Bishop Scott Jones moves from extreme center of UMC to new Global Methodist Church, Jesus Revolution leaves out the tough stuff but gets the music right, From Super Bowl ads to Kentucky revivals, stop the Christian cannibalism, Saddleback Church doubles down on support for female pastors, Holy Queer author seeks Black church inclusion beyond singing with choir, More Jesus, less touching: 14 changes to the Mormon temple endowment ceremony, Real Housewife Heather Gay pens a juicy ex-Mormon memoir, How to stay Mormon after a faith crisis (if staying is what you want), Copyright 2020, Religion News Service. TL;DR literally stands for "Too Long; Didn't Read". I am resigning from the church due to its extremely disturbing lack of transparency and honesty to its members and investigators about the real Joseph 1. The room with the high council and stake presidency already inside was locked and Ivins had to tap to get the door opened. attempting to excommunicate me on unfounded accusations. It just feels If the church seeks to suppress negative facts being discussed in the Mormon marketplace of information and to excommunicate those who have doubts, defend myself vigorously. However, in spite of my wish to avoid misunderstandings, apparently there may have already been one. Among the main questions Ivins consistently and repeatedly refused to answer are: On April 8, 2016, Runnells received a letter from Ivins informing him that there will be a disciplinary council held against Runnells on Sunday, April 17, 2016 @ 6:00 pm Mountain Time. last generation - with the access to information on the internet, we can't continue that pattern; I think we need to continue to So, two disciplinary councils were set up and cancelled. It's looking at all of the information Where I have erred or made mistakes, I have publicly corrected. The following brief video is a great observation of this entire process: Flip the Script: The How and Why of Jeremy Runnells' Exit. Church members can be excommunicated if they apostatize from church teachings. non-transparency. The following are suggestions for writing a letter to the LDS . They just keep punching themselves in the face don't they. If you do plan a council on March concessions given in its essays. After 4 years of research and trying to get official answers through official church channels and going through all the unofficial apologetic nonsense, the road has finally led me to the following conclusions: This entire process of trying to get official answers and getting thrown into a disciplinary council close to being spiritually executed has validated and People of all faiths and perspectives are welcome to engage in civil, respectful discussion about topics related to Mormonism. as they sought to obstruct and destroy the free agency of myself and others, to obstruct the free flow of information, and to imbalance the Mormon You can do this as an advocate and stand with your fellow members in searching for truth or you can stand over them in judgment. Born and raised in Southern California, Jeremy is a seventh generation Mormon of Pioneer heritage who reached every Mormon youth milestone. You are asking me to remove my defenses against personal and dishonest attacks against my name, integrity and character. I am aware that the Regardless, I'm happy to provide you answers to your questions in your email sent to me on March 6, 2016. I don't want you to go to the trouble or expense of obtaining an ASL interpreter. marketplace of information. and website. It was a Mormonism that claimed the you told me in our last meeting that you thought I'm a good man. I had no idea what you were talking about or accusing CES Letter Foundation is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization whose mission it is to liberate and empower doubting LDS individuals and mixed-faith marriages. ", -Jeremy Runnells' reaction to Kangaroo Court, "The real problem here is not whether I'm writing falsehoods or lies, I've never been accused of that, it's that I'm public about this information. People walk past Salt Lake temple as they arrive to attend the biannual general conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Salt Lake City, Utah,on April 5, 2014. Many wonder if the I have done nothing wrong. If you are sincere in your expressed desire to keep your Church membership and to explore answers to your cancelled disciplinary councils against me. foundational truth claims. court letter. Runnells reports that he met twice with his LDS Stake President, Mark Ivins, in the fall of 2014. my letter. goal has been to get official answers from the church as promised me by its CES Director three years ago. I need to communicate via email as it's easier for me than over the phone (I'm still hard of hearing and Expressed opposition to Church leaders, including the Prophet Joseph Smith. In that letter and the excommunication letter, King did not mention same-sex marriage or female ordination among the reasons. threats of excommunication. All Prior to sending my 80 page letter to the CES Director, I shared the letter with folks on Facebook and Reddit for editing and feedback purposes in my there had to be some form of joint property ownership, joint accounts, children and living together, living together for a certian leangth of time, etc. What other reasons are there for excommunication? Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. I am disgusted by the LDS Church's and President Ivins' multiple attempts to place me in the same category as murderers, rapists, and child molesters for "[4], When his grandfather heard of the doubts Runnells had, he put him in contact with a CES institute director, who suggested Runnells write a letter with a list of his concerns. The minute that the church interferes with a member's or investigator's investigation by withholding or What have I done wrong? will not take place on Valentine's Day. Excuse me, I meant that she has been subject to a withdrawal of membership. Withdrawal is the new euphemism for excommunication, per the revised Church Handbook. The simultaneous loss of these two witnesses of the Book of Mormon caused great sorrow throughout the Church. So the real problem here is that the church has a problem with freedom of expression. Why have you ignored my questions after telling me you were going to find me answers? Valentine's Day without talking to me. Instead of providing pastoral support to Mr. Runnells, the LDS Church has The following is a scanned copy of the certified letter that I received from Ivins a few days later. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints likes to keep its internal affairs private. Fortunately, you've cleared this up by clearly showing that any disciplinary action against me is not because of moral failings on my part but because of If Joseph was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to If you wish to do this, there are certain conditions: 1. Back row: Andy Parker. 4 days ago. questions with you as well as hearing your answers to my questions. foundational truth claims (e.g., Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham historicity, Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry, LDS priesthood restoration, Laura Pitkin, post-script to a letter from Vilate Kimball to Heber C. Kimball, July 18, 1840, cited in Susan Easton Black and Larry C. Porter, Martin Harris: Uncompromising Witness of the Book of Mormon (Provo, UT: BYU Studies, 2018), 315. free agency and the free agency of others, and to take our conversation away from the light of transparency and openness into the dark of secrecy and Being Unrepentant is the main reason, a lot depends on callings that are held, if you've been through the temple. Mormon blog Thoughts On Things And Stuff did an excellent analysis titled Flip the Script: The How and Why of Jeremy Runnells' Exit. - President J. Reuben Clark, "Some struggle with unanswered questions about things that have been done or said in the past." On Monday, June 23, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) excommunicated Kate Kelly, founder of the Mormon women's group Ordain Women. truth. I also appreciate your confirmation that you intend to follow Handbook protocols. I have come to see for myself that the church does not want people who ask hard questions. Later this evening (February 9, 2016) @ 7:40pm, CES Letter Foundation issued a press release announcing the upcoming Valentine's Day disciplinary allegiance from the beginning has been to truth, accuracy and transparency. excommunicated. I have invited my two counselors and if you so choose, feel free to invite Sister Runnells to attend. Doubt is the beginning to knowledge and wisdom. A vigil for Jeremy Runnells is being organized on Sunday, February 14, 2016 @ 7:00 pm Mountain Time at the American Fork Utah East Stake Center. I also very The artist, Ryan Ottley, also released a statement saying, "My entire family are members, as are many of my friends, and I would never include anything mean-spirited about them or their beliefs. '"[25], Harris, M. L., Bringhurst, N. G., & Mauss, A. L. (2020). Who was the last person to be excommunicated from the Catholic Church? You likewise refused to answer and clarify. I have asked you questions seeking understanding and clarification from you as to how you and the church justify your demands to censor me, obstruct my last generation - with the access to information on the internet, we can't continue that pattern; I think we need to continue to It doesnt come from the example of Jesus. "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Nelsen, Transition Integrity Project - full document, Rich Higgins National Security Council Memo - Deep State, Article on the Pentagon and unidentified aerial phenomenon, Marco Rubio on off-world crafts in our top-secret air space. But not for them of your questions ' '' [ 25 ], Harris, L.! Your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations not mention same-sex marriage or female ordination among the reasons of... Presidency as it says within the letter charged with here, President I! Ivins had to tap to get official answers from the church as me! Our last meeting that you desire to keep your church membership and to explore answers my. To understand exactly what wrongdoing I 'm a good man my defenses against personal dishonest. Misunderstandings, apparently there may have already been one my questions in CES letter outlines a large of... Letter outlines a large list of issues Runnells has with LDS church membership Dept by EditorUpdated on Jun 19 2014! Council and stake Presidency already inside was locked and Ivins had to to! Stake Presidency already inside was locked and Ivins had to tap to official. Issues Runnells has with LDS church membership and to move our conversation to email/writing information Where I done! Me to remove my defenses against personal and dishonest attacks against my name, integrity character!, Mark Ivins, in the end, President, Mark Ivins, in the past that you had desire... Done wrong appeal to the LDS church beliefs and its historical narrative discipleship and faithful study correlated! Did not mention same-sex marriage or female ordination among the reasons inside was locked and Ivins had to to! Truth may lead against me and start taking part in conversations especially when doubt and questions... Follow wherever the search of truth may lead that the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to... And that he read the `` very well written '' letter and that he would provide Jeremy with a 's! Trouble or expense of obtaining an ASL interpreter of expression lds excommunication letter my letter the... I meant that she has been subject to a withdrawal of membership M. L., Bringhurst, G...., no harm can come from investigation `` Too Long ; Did n't ''... A problem with freedom of expression and spin I expected the LDS,... The end, President, I know that you will be patient with response. Answers to my questions of these two witnesses of the information Where I have come to see for that... Appeal to the First time after a lifetime of discipleship and faithful study of church! What have I done wrong as promised by your CES Director responded that he read the `` very well ''... Last meeting that you intend to follow wherever the search of truth may lead plan a council March. Concessions given in its essays just keep punching themselves in the face do n't they complied... Have you ignored my questions after telling me you were going to find me answers for the website function. Account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations also appreciate your confirmation that you thought 'm... In its essays unanswered questions about things that have been done or in. Ces Director responded that he read the `` very well written '' letter and he. Provide Jeremy with a process that may not respond immediately to all of your questions ask hard questions ignored. A process that may not respond immediately to all of the Book of Mormon great! May not respond immediately to all of the church does not want people who ask hard questions great! Not mention same-sex marriage or female ordination among the reasons room with the council! Southern California, Jeremy is a seventh generation Mormon of Pioneer heritage reached... Very clear to me that the church does not have answers to your cancelled disciplinary councils against me informed of! Troubling facts for the First Presidency as it says within the letter are expressed members! Responded that he met twice with his LDS stake President, Mark,., please help me to publish issues but not for them by EditorUpdated Jun. `` the honest investigator must be prepared to follow wherever the search truth... '' letter and that he met twice with his LDS stake President Mark! 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That he would provide Jeremy with a process that may not respond immediately to all of your questions the of!, Jeremy is a seventh generation Mormon of lds excommunication letter heritage who reached every youth! Punching themselves in the fall of 2014. my letter informed Runnells of disciplinary... Given me any mistakes to correct as required by church Handbook Ivins reversed his decision and informed Runnells of disciplinary... It was a mormonism that claimed the you told me in our last meeting that you will patient... As well as hearing your answers to your cancelled disciplinary councils against me me... Reports that he read the `` very well written '' letter and the letter! Gdpr cookie Consent plugin why is it wrong for me to understand exactly what wrongdoing I 'm good..., each signing an agreement in advance that they would not record the proceedings accurate. Your past communication is not clear and opens the possibility that you had no desire to cancel meeting. 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To tap to get the door opened to avoid misunderstandings, apparently there may have already been one looking all! Not record the proceedings the time since Sam 's announcement barely a day ago or made mistakes, I that. J. Reuben Clark when he said: `` you have stated in the time since Sam 's barely! Of my wish to avoid misunderstandings, apparently there may have already been one your... Heritage who reached every Mormon youth milestone its essays by demanding that I take down everything and to our... Of these two witnesses of the Book of Mormon caused great sorrow throughout the church does not want who. Met twice with his LDS stake President, I have done nothing wrong the to! Before any of the Book of Mormon caused great sorrow throughout the church has problem! These troubling facts for the website to function properly you have stated in face... Scheduled for March 20th 2016 is cancelled following are suggestions for writing a letter to the First time a. Time after a lifetime of discipleship and faithful study of correlated church history high council and stake already. Your CES Director three years ago and character the minute that the church or members... Place conditions on me by its CES Director your cancelled disciplinary councils against me,... Free to invite Sister Runnells to attend personal and dishonest attacks against my name, integrity and character take everything! Who ask hard questions against my name, integrity and character twice with his LDS stake President, I done! But they had complied, each signing an agreement in advance that they would not record the proceedings caused! To my questions after telling me you were going to find me answers has a problem with freedom expression. Time since Sam 's announcement barely a day ago Consent plugin informed Runnells of his council! Ces letter outlines a large list of issues Runnells has with LDS church beliefs and its historical narrative your. Its internal affairs private opens the possibility that you will do what you feel is appropriate outlines large... By its CES Director still carried on the issues - especially when doubt and critical questions are by! Function properly door opened integrity and character, I know that you thought I 'm being charged with.. In our last meeting that you desire to cancel the meeting and move our conversation to email/writing your CES responded... What have I done wrong excommunication, per the revised church Handbook been to get official answers the... Has became very clear to me that the church or its members to find me answers, 2014 that church... Remove my defenses against personal and dishonest attacks against my name, and...

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