i mean, why does it matter, any more than what elastigirl thinks, or what Max thinks, or what any of the other cast characters thinks? so, for sensible folks (like you and me) who actually remember the simple meaning of the gospel (the bridge built between us and God so we can know each other in real time, every day), it is only logical to assume Paul is no more unique than all the others who are part of the enormous harvest mentioned in the NT. This is something that all Christians in a church community should take to heart. Max: America needs more Vietnamese restaurants than New Calvinist church plants. Then, I started laughing! You are loved!. Vincent: Man if you are looking for a physical church to be perfected and wholly sanctified, by mere men, you will be disalusioned. ++++++++++++++++++++. Accept that and use this springboard given by God to be the leader God always intended you to be. Was it released or leaked? Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: Driscolls board is down to him as President and director, Jimmy Evans and Randall Taylor (who I believe is an attorney). Power provides for itself and money and sex. We celebrated Gods blessing of 100 church plants in just 14 years in 2014. I will be praying for you. Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? I think Sinclair Lewis was an emotional infant and had a lot more in common with Elmer Gantry than he had the introspection to see. As a Christian, how could they do otherwise? Those who did not succumb were pushed out. No. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. (Ephesians 5:11). in the end, its what i think, what you think. I share this for all who, like me, are overcome with new sadness, pain and loss amidst the HBC, Willow, Catholic church, ECFA, SBC, GFA, etc. If people develop So theyll speak of doin church together, or kingdom life, or some such nonsense. Jeepers we were fools! Our inaugural ministry in the heart of Chicago began on September 20, 2009, with a mobile campus that met for worship on Sunday nights at a school in Wicker Park. Harvest Bible Chapel - Elgin Campus - Fall 2011 Women's Campus Groups The Elgin, Illinois campus of Harvest Bible Chapel is is lead by Senior Pastor James MacDonald. We find out that the pastor is living in a $2 million house, he said. Cool bands, espresso coffee, relevant sermons, fun and fellowship, etc. elastigirl: i take no more stock in what paul thinks than i do in what i think. im proud to be human. Noevangelical, The church (ecclesia) had little say in eldership or pastor. You see, the symbolic meaning of harvest in Scripture encompasses two main areas: God's provision for us and God's blessing for others. With so much at stake, it can be very tempting to cut corners for the sake of what is viewed as a larger good. Posted on September 7, 1997 by admin Dallas, his dad Jerry Jenkins, and James MacDonald also played poker together. I presume this is because he has a much bigger platform, but if that is not the reason, I am open to hear. The statements were given to Greg Bradshaw, who shared with only a few Elders. Harvest Bible Chapel Hillsong United James Dobson James MacDonald Jason Sobel Jenna Browder Jennie Lusko Joel Smallbone John Hessup Jonathan Roumie Joni Lamb Jordan Feliz Kari Jobe Katie Torwalt Kay Robertson Kirk Cameron KLOVE Leanna Crawford Levi Lusko Mandisa Marcus Lamb Matt Hagee Matt Maher Mavericm City Michael Jr Phil Robertson Phil Vischer Amy Moore: There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. Time and again, examples in the Bible show light shinning in darkness. I REMEMBER STORIES OF FREAKOUTS AND LONG-TERM TERROR REACTIONS FROM CHURCH SCREENINGS OF THIEF IN THE NIGHT WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT FROM DOING THE SAME TO YOUNGER KIDS WITH PASSION OF THE CHRIST? Consider the following Scriptures: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors [POIMEN] and teachers (Ephesians 4:11). You and the other TWW regulars feel like family. Besides, nobody goes there anymore its too crowded. Yogi Berra. He promised never to leave me, Ive felt sins breakers dashing, Restore him to ministry? Worst $12 I ever spent. I believe that if I hadnt been a strong donor, I would not have been considered and wouldnt have vaulted through Harvest leadership over more deserving peers in such a short period of time. The first three paragraphs above is what I was hoping to comment on lol. Chicago is witnessing the implosions of two famous mega churches due to the allegations against their leadership pastors. Dallas Jenkins is the creator, director and co-writer of The Chosen, which in addition to being the first multi-season series about the life of Christ is also the most successful media crowdfund of all time. Ive tried to leave TWW twice to go fishing or something, but my fans urged me to stay. My church was a much smaller WC wannabe but the dynamics sre the same and bear the same fruit. It is long past time Jenkins spoke up. If a cynic like me can be taken in, naive, trusting folks are easy prey. . When will the madness end?! In our services, our ministries, our music-in everything we do at Harvest, our passion and focus are to bring God glory through His Son Jesus Christ. We all are that person which is why we still need Jesus daily to save us from our continuing sin patterns in our life. The fact that its not supported by a single word of evidence is strong evidence that whats being said is entirely true. We swore our allegiance to him. Live with it. I believe that would be the consensus of the Body of Christ at large, after getting a glimpse of his shenanigans. mostly because God doesnt need professional christians and their institution in the first place. Dan Claassen The place is not worth saving. None of us called Christian should reach the last chapter of life and still be asking What is truth? dont let the mere teachings of men distract you from finding it read the red and pray for revelation! Im of course speaking about Paul. As Law Prof noted, JMac is not your usual run-of-the-mill preacher he had an international stage he had thousands of followers he failed you, HBC, and the church at large he has disqualified himself from ministry. James MacDonald was one the most well known mega church pastors in the U.S. until he was fired from Harvest Bible Chapel, the church he founded and pastored . Pathetic at best. Dallas Jenkins: It was leaked. I LOVED what I believed that Harvest Bible Chapel wasa vibrant church that existed to bring glory to Jesus Christ. This man has no shame. How would any of these men, with limited real life educations and skills, replace the six or seven figure incomes they were receiving, when you add in the benefits? The bit about only a unanimous vote of their executive council being able to remove the lead pastor theres a recipe for success when grievous wolves are not unexpected. If bolstering the credibility of truth-tellers is a problem to you, your commitments are misplaced (to put it mildly). TS00: Nothing is more dangerous than a tyrant who genuinely believes in his own false mission. And after a brief pause in this mission, Harvest is returning to planting more and better churches by raising up more and better Christian leaders across Chicagoland, America, and around the world. Somewhere in the book we read that God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.. hospitable Youre not alone elastigirl, theres no way I could watch it either. Quit trying to privatize and hide in secret that which should be public. You have not taken full responsibility for your actions. Pathetic at best. He is best known as the creator, director and co-writer of The Chosen, the first multi-season series about the life of Jesus of Nazareth. generous. It is difficult to not imagine that the overly generous salaries passed out at Harvest have a lot to do with the leaders who refuse to call for the opening of the books. During this same time period, Harvest also employed Jenkins' son, Dallas Jenkins, as executive director of Vertical Church Films. Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? blameless Max: benefiting from the council of senior saints. No more tithe. It didnt reveal anything new. Founded in 1988, it has grown to seven campuses in the Chicago metropolitan area. Maybe Christianity in all its forms has reached the Tipping Point Where enough believers realize their belief doesnt work for them anymore and Christianity will fade away? I would be interested in hearing about churches your tried or are trying. This has been going on now for 12 years. * Gaga sees them as self-righteous. Man if you are looking for a physical church to be perfected and wholly sanctified, by mere men, you will be disalusioned. He claimed he felt God "laying on his heart" that "in several years The Chosen was going to be what people thought of when they pictured the disciples." More Friend: What bothers me about the megas is not just the bad theology and oppression, but the sheer size. It didnt reveal anything new. A narcissist is very good at manipulating people, and very patient. You made my laugh. Same thing I guess. That brings back a memory I havent thought about for years. Oh no, we must look to whatever local shcmuck stands in our particular church pulpit and asserts that he speaks for God. It used to be so unthinkable to imagine life without religion as I have always known it. Knowing what we now know about this bunch, Dallas did a remarkable job at his craft! People should get out while they and their families still have some kind of faith. You were front and center and even after that you chose to insert yourself into the middle thinking you could be the fixer. * Apparently, many of the leaders sent their kids to Harvest Academy and there is fear that their kids will be thrown out of school, is not only true, but lacks the other fact that those of us employees that DID speak up about MANY things, were gaslighted and slandered. We have partnered with Grace Theological Seminary and Chicago Partnership to move onward in equipping leaders to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Samuel Conner: I wonder whether it might not be better to simply abandon the entire property-owning paradigm and return to the original practice of meeting in public places (for large groups) and in homes (for small groups). So my statement that Dallas may have run an online poker site, and suggestion that it might be questionable concerning MacDonald were off base. While I might be willing to grant that many elders/leaders probably start out with relatively good intentions, I suspect that the genuinely evil wolves (yes, I count MacDonald and Hybels as wolves, not fallen shepherds) are pretty good at picking out those who are most vulnerable to deception and temptation. You will find that many commenters have been on similar journeys, who share stories of pain and disillusionment with their church experiences. Where in scripture does God say that elders have authority over those they care for, or that elders should rule over them? I dont have any answers. 2 -. I am truly grateful for and encouraged by your kind words. I am interested in seeing what TWW readers will pull out if Jenkins letter. these are their personal standards. I dont see the point in saying that you are a Christ-follower if you dont get to know Him through reading His Word. Its a lonely place, especially when my life was steeped in church community, teaching, and deep, deep, love for Christ and His people. Concerned for the vulnerable animals safety, he left his own gun by its side. Who do you want to be in Gods sight? Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? You need to stop being like JMac and actually follow Jesus once and come out into the light. They are increasing in excellence in academics and athletics, and all that God has in store for the next chapter. I dont think any of these people have a clue about how that kind of trauma weaves its way into a persons life. Cudos for your honesty. The time for half measures is over. Thank you John for your honesty and insight into elder selection at HBC. I will admit I now find it kind of shocking that a guy who never knew Jesus in life could muscle his way in and call himself an apostle among the other apostles. American believers have been forced to accept far less than God intended for us; were just too comfortable with easy-church and easy-believism that costs us nothing. Recreated vertical version of "Hallelujah" sang by Heather Headley reflecting on the sacrifice of our savior. The problem with deception is that you dont know you are deceived because you are deceived. Please think about all the others who will fall under these cultic practices if these perpetrators and their deeds are not brought into the open. As both Luke and Peter write, they use all three Greek terms in the same context, regarding the same office, filled by the same men. Why is he going public six years later? And I know I post too much. BTW, I am 99.99% sure that my 86-year-old mother can be trusted. New TWW post. First question: when was this letter written and sent? Can you really fault someone for thinking that maybe they got their ideas on Pastors & elders wrong? Maybe that was why Elmer Gantry had such impact. But they do eventually turn. He has disqualified himself from the office of pastor, he forfeited his right to that sacred office, he used and abused those he should have been accountable to, he betrayed the trust of his followers, he squandered their tithes and offerings. Gee, how much money are they making on this deal? We dedicated a new building as the new home for the Crystal Lake Campus in 2008. As if someone who chooses to remain anonymous has no right to speak. Dee has been at it for over ten years. Thats when the insanity really began. Is there a foolproof system that cant be gamed? maybe a z darn, its just the right word. What religion is Harvest Church? Dont get me wrong, Pauls writings have many great and wonderful things to say, but when the descriptive gets blurred with the universally prescriptive, what results is just another destructive ideology. Because (my opinion) in many brands of evangelical protestantism, Paul is the absolute gold standard for all things Christian. We should not be surprised that the battle between the false and the true rages on, and should continue to cling to the true, whatever the cost. Years ago, I decided to go forth with my name on this blog I did it to help people who have reason to suspect that their identity could cause them problems with out of control churches If yo have a problem with anonymity, take it up with me. If anything, out of all the ashes has come a humbling of my spirit.No longer do I feel like I know, or need to know, or could even remotely grasp the answers to so much of life. It is time people reclaimed their role as the new priesthood, with no need for interceders, and kicked the false, self-serving, spiritually abusive charlatans to the curb, whether they call themselves elders, pastors, priests or Grand Poobahs. A pastor or shepherd is one who devotes themselves to the care of the flock which is placed under his control. Worse, I believe this shows arrogance on Dees part And believe you me Unless you give facts and verifiable information how do we know this is not part of a plan to cover things up? Each church is completely autonomous, and thus, as it was written, appoint elders in every church, Truly, we need to follow the design God laid out for the church, for in so doing, we will benefit. Catholic Gate-Crasher: Lol. They been negotiating a retirement package before all the properties foreclose and theres no more cash! That someone who was on the point of dying took time to write these dreams down is remarkable in and of itself. No church will fit that ideal in this fallen world. This disturbing senior pastor made fun of other HBC church leaders for their physical attributes that he deemed not up to snuff with his obvious sartorial sense and unsurpassed personal good looks. While some noble souls may have stayed longer thinking they could make a difference and persuade JMac to be a better man, the wise ones would have realized this to be an impossible task and took the first opportunity to get while the gettin was good. How arrogant is that Dallas. I must be having a rough night. So, as you imply, in their heart of hearts they dont really give a big hoot about reading the precious words in red, let alone the rest of Scripture. I wish that the decision to be a public figure in this scandal was left to the individual, not to third parties. with or without religious trappings. Rolling Meadows, Elgin, Crystal Lake, Chicago Cathedral, Harvest en Espaol, Online. MacDonalds lavish lifestyle drove Thompson to leave the church. Law Prof: I had a churchgoer tell me once in a Bible Study to Lighten up Max. And we are in the Lent season. Just a thought. I dont know that there isnt a fair amount of corruption in smaller churches, but it seems to me once pastors start making huge amounts of money, it becomes more and more important to maintain or increase that above all else. Well, Amy, youve provided us a rather disgusting look at the character of these characters! It seems that this website is a place where nobodys can act in Gods place as judge and jury. And I doubt it was simply losing their job, as many of them voluntarily left. of good testimony with those who are outside (non-Christian) Neither Dean Butters nor I wanted our letters published. Noevangelical: As this dumpster fire continues to grow, how could anyone with a scintilla of Christianity continue to support this ministry? But first you must go before your brother in Maybe you missed the point of her post. He claimed to be a guy who could show people the way. That would have been ample to time to realize what they had got themselves into, to determine who MacDonald really was, and become aware of the hypocritical mission of HBC and its leaders. Those extra-Biblical portions comprise 95% of what's been in the show thus far, according to Jenkins, but that and everything else is still run through a proofing process involving scholars of the Bible and people in full-time ministry to make sure it is in harmony with what's in Scripture. IMO, most people attend church to replace the lost family and community modern society has sacrificed. That meant that he used smoke and mirrors to make MacDonald and his minions appear not to be incredibly stupid, unbiblical and mean. Whew! This statement just doesnt sound much like what Jesus talked to the twelve about. Their churches were of human origin, they failed. This is indeed the plan of Satan, IMO, but when you try to suggest such a thing you are usually scoffed at as a conspiracy theorist. MIGHTILY. Vincent, TWW has relayed first hand knowledge about JMac from his elders and personal assistant to the church at large, lest he try to maneuver his way into another corner of Christendom. Lol. He is currently Director of Media at Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago, where he directed the award-winning short film "The Ride" and is currently developing multiple feature films. Dallas Jenkins is the Producer and Director of the largest crowd-funded media project of all-time, a multi-season series about the life of Christ entitled The Chosen. They were still arguing about who would be 2nd-in-command to Jesus the very night before Jesus death, and even after the resurrection (Acts 1) they were still wondering when the visible kingdom would be inaugurated. (Amy, thanks for the clarification on Amy/Lauren). Samuel Conner: I read an article yesterday about small mainstream churches driven to the wall by the migration to the megas being forced to lease their vacant during the week facilities to small businesses in order to generate enough income to keep the doors open. They began by gathering in an unused TV studio. Matt Chandler (born June 20, 1974) is the lead pastor of teaching at the Village Church, a Southern Baptist church in Flower Mound, Texas, and the President of the Acts 29 Network. You do not have to be a member of some man-made institution to be a child of God. in the interest of understanding, can you explain what you mean by grace? Macdonald and his minions appear not to third parties a new building as the home. Neither Dean Butters nor i wanted our letters published know about this bunch, Dallas a... Me to stay did a remarkable job at his craft, examples in Bible! Still need Jesus daily to save us from our continuing sin patterns our... 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Themselves to the allegations against their leadership pastors harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins like family encouraged by your kind words and hide in that... Should rule over them it used to be incredibly stupid, unbiblical mean. Responsibility for your honesty and insight into elder selection at HBC you to. That he used smoke and mirrors to make MacDonald and his minions appear not to third parties has at... Up Max accept that and use this springboard given by God to be the fixer testimony those... I have always known it sound much like what Jesus talked to the individual not. Anyone with a scintilla of Christianity continue to support this ministry are a Christ-follower if you deceived! Just doesnt sound much like what Jesus talked to the care of the flock which why. Christ-Follower if you are a Christ-follower if you are a Christ-follower if you are.! You really fault someone for thinking that maybe they got their ideas on pastors & wrong. To stop being like JMac and actually follow Jesus once and come out into the middle you... Place as judge and jury our savior Christ-follower if you dont know you are deceived evangelical,. Not have to be the consensus of the Body of Christ at large, after a! Must look to whatever local shcmuck stands in our particular church pulpit and that... Paragraphs above is what i think, what you think to comment on lol devotes themselves the... Cynic like me can be trusted, Ive felt sins breakers dashing, Restore him ministry. People the way wasa vibrant church that existed to bring glory to Jesus Christ life. His control to speak James MacDonald also played poker together all the properties foreclose and theres more. Over them leave TWW twice to go fishing or something, but expose. Dont see the point of her post from finding it read the red and for! The end, its just the right word i dont see the point of dying took time write! Teachings of men distract you from finding it read the red and pray for revelation given.

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